The People Demand It!

17 Responses to “The End is Near”

1. Danny Lucas
   October 1st, 2008 at 3:41 am

   This is like a Freddy kreuger movie,….it keeps coming BAAAAAck!

   Ian, I popped a lot of this over to the Homepage with Panepento for wider exposure to the audience.

   Since Wednesday, 10/1/08 is the only day that matters, it needs all the exposure possible. Good stuff.

   Best regards,
   Danny Lucas

2. Ian Enterline
   October 1st, 2008 at 5:23 am

   Thanks Danny! I’m trying!

3. Hillman
   October 1st, 2008 at 6:08 am

   Ian…I agree with Danny. This is a “good stuff” and we all need to keep up with it before it’s too late. I think we can make a difference if we all stick together.

4. Danny Lucas
   October 1st, 2008 at 6:26 am

   The claim being put out this morning is that the Monday Bailout had a 200 Against for every 1 For.

   Whereas, after thoughtful review, the new ratio is considered 50-50, so a “Rescue” is now in order.

   This one will be worse in the Senate than in the House for the Earmarks are built in already, as a way to convince House members to risk their jobs by voting yes, …on the premise and promise of lots of money to hand out in their district to bribe the voters as usual.

   Folks should read the COMMENTS after Malkins post….just scroll down and see how regular folks are seeing this fiasco.

   Hillman, your discernment powers amaze me, given that the Malkin post is forever longer than my Phil English analysis.
   I hope this is not a Johnny Cochran style “Rush To Judgment” on your part today.

5. Ed Tonkin
   October 1st, 2008 at 8:13 am

   Here! Here! to everybody. Lets all help to kill this hydra headed monster. It only takes we the people to do it.

6. Tim
   October 1st, 2008 at 8:18 am

   Keep up the great work Ian! I get a kick out of watching CNBC and hearing them bitch about people who are against this deal. You know what? I hope the bill gets defeated so I can hear Jim Cramer bitch and throw a tantrum some more!

   Keep it Up!

7. Ron
   October 1st, 2008 at 11:25 am

   This bill is garbage - It’s full of earmarks! How is “wooden arrows for use by children” helping the economy? If you have to polish a turd this much, you should have just flushed it!

   http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/01/senate-bailout-bill-hits-the-internet/

8. Dennis
   October 1st, 2008 at 3:37 pm

   Ian,
   I disagree with you. (Could be the first time.) Although the earmarks show once again there should be a line item veto, we need this bill to pass to save the credit market. Businesses can’t get loans for equipment or inventory. People can’t get loans for cars or homes. Our economy runs on credit and right now we’re running on empty.

9. Danny Lucas
   October 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am

   Line item vetos are unconstitutional.
   That is why they never pass.
   It transfers the Power of the Purse from the Legislative to the Executive Branch. The Founders said “NO”. The Legislative must be in charge of spending. The Legislative no longer functions.

   When folks with integrity were in charge in that branch, it worked fine.
   They are now corrupt and earmarks are to the USA , what bribery is to foreign government to accomplish their agenda.

   Line item veto is not needed; INTEGRITY is.

   Our country ran just fine, without the credit Dennis claims, pre-1969.
   You lived within your means, saved, and spent frugally.

   Europe used taxation policy to modify their corrupted system of greed. VAT made saving prudent and spending expensive.

   We will bite the bullet in the long run as a bust, or in the short run as a pain, called deep recession. We desperately need to get off the tracx of running an economy on so much credit. (Better known as DEBT)

   Besides, bailing out fraud at banks encourages more of the same in the long run. Wall Street has learned that they can act like drunken sailors, and in the end, bailout will ALWAYS occur.

   People ARE buying cars and homes.
   Those are people who acted prudently and saved a reasonable down payment and got the balance financed.

   When demand drops on autos, the prices will fall big time,….just as housing has done.

   The House shut this down out of election fear, not integrity.
   There is no law until they pass the Senate shenanigan again.
   They will, but only after adding gargantuan earmarks anew.

10. George Vietze
    October 2nd, 2008 at 9:45 am

    This is a bailout of tremendous proportions. In order for the bailout to work the banks are going to have to be willing to sell this “bad paper” they have invested in at a price that is more than the current market price to give the banks an incentive to sell. This is starting to smell too much like socialism.

    The problem is, if they don’t bail out these financial institutions the cost to main street will be depressionary painful. It took Japan 17 years when they were at this point and did nothing to solve the problem.
    It all depends what lens you look through in looking at this problem.
    If you have no reason for credit, have no 401K, do not own stocks or investments, do not have a pension that is funded with investments in the stock market that could dry up and you pension not be funded, do not own a business that needs credit or customers who need financing or do not need to have a credit card limit and you have cash and no debt, maybe revenge to those people who have abused the system should drown in their own problem but a lot of other people will also drown along with them.

    Revenege has never been a good solution for monetery problems but I can certainly understand why so many people do not want this huge bailout.

    Having left Arizona and California and moved to Erie where land costs are $3000-$5000 per acre not $150,000 to $1,000,000 per acre.
    Erie is not a bad place to be in this economic climate, yes we are affected but not nearly to the extent that Cal.,Fla.,Ariz.,Neveda are feeling their pain. If they do not solve this problem we will also feel the pain and frankly, that is the way the market should work, let the pain begin and the healing start. I personally do not want to see all the jobs lost, car dealerships go broke, people’s 401K go to very very low values,
    pensions in jeapordy of not being funded, loans being called and credit limits reduced or cancelled, people unable to sell or buy homes
    but maybe that is the only way we are going to learn not to make the same mistakes……Is the pain to millions of people who did not particicpate in this fiassco worth the cost of not doing anything?
    We may be about to find out!…..Tough call.

11. Danny Lucas
    October 2nd, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Actually George, the real ending and pain out of all of this is greater than your succinct summation. The pain is going to be more than financial.

    The people have never spoken louder to their representatives in Washington. The representatives turned off the phones.

    Bribery is built into the bailout, a double play of failure.

    The people can clearly see that our form of government is in its dying days. The will of the people has given way to the will of the Corporations.

    I expect many people to simply drop out of the game after having their eyes opened in this charade. And when folks do not participate in Democracy, you get Iraq under Bush.

    When I lived in Florida, I can attest to your view, George, that other states are feeling a whopper of hot iron versus Erie. But, I also noticed an underground economy already humming along just fine without the government, without taxes, without interference.
    Folks made transactions with cash, and sometimes barter.

    The government “take” called taxes was keenly avoided.

    This occurred in Pennsylvania too.
    People had no problem paying sales tax on a new car.
    They have a huge problem paying the same sales tax over and over as the car is resold, many times, over time.

    So, they “underbid” the price to avoid tax. Or, simply took cash.
    The State took notice of this behavior in PA and passed a new law that made you pay the tax on the value of the car (like NADA), REGARDLESS of the sales income from the transaction.

    Imagine paying tax on sales income you did not get?
    This is for USED cars, and they can do it because every car is registered/insured (maybe).

    The Federal Governement did the same on tips to waitresses.
    Tips are cash, and single moms and students doing this valuable work, took the cash and paid bills. To hell with taxes.

    The IRS corrected that behavior by saying waitresses taxes are now a function of restaurant receipts, NOT what you got in tips.
    Imagine paying tax on money you did not get because the restaurant bill was paid…..and you were not tipped, or tipped enough!

    In some areas, the government catches folks (cars, waitresses).
    But you need only go to any garage sale and see the same underground economy at work without any government involvement whatsoever.

    The bailout will increase this behavior exponentially.

    The people can see that the government is not listening to them.
    And the government has no one to blame but themself.

12. Tim
    October 2nd, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Ian,

    According to Dennis people can’t get loans at the moment because the credit is dried up! If this is true, why was I able to get a $15,000 loan for a used vehicle at a local bank with a 7% interest rate with 10% down??? (And I have 36 months to repay the loan!)

    I asked my bank loan officer and was told that they are still lending money to people who meet the credit criteria - just the way it should be! Maybe this “crisis” (real or imagined) will teach people that there is NO substitute for good credit!? Pay your bills on time and live within your means and you will be fine!

    We now return to the mainstream media and there rousing rendition of….”Oh No! The Sky is Falling! No One can Get a Loan! We’re all Gonna Die!!!!!”

13. George Vietze
    October 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am

    To respond to Danny’s comment about the underground economy I suggest the following:

    The Government is, in a sense, our partner, we help fund the cost of goverment programs. When these programs are packed with pork and other nonsensical, irresponsible programs and senseless spending and corruption it is hard to get a majority of the people excited about supporting this waste. Hence, a larger underground economy than we might otherwise have and as Danny said, it is going to continue to grow as more and more people distance themselves from this waste.

    One of the reasons for this financial fiasco is that the market place always is smarter than the government and responds to government programs with free market strategy that will maximize the private sector and sometimes to the expense of all of us, then the government choses to bail them out. For example when the government decides to guaranty private mortgages to help citizens to increase home ownership they leave openings in their security instruments and law that allow the borrower or homeowner to walk away from that mortgage without personal recourse, they might lose their house that was secured by the mortgage but by law, in some cases, they can walk away from the deficiency of that loan, THAT THEY BORROWED, without any pain or owing of that money they borrowed. So why not walk away, it might hurt their credit but they don’t have to go bankrupt. That is only one part of the problem, the other part of the problem the money lenders know they have a government guarantee and offer terms such as smaller down payments, no documentation of income and other terms that they would not offer if they did not have the government guarantee that allows them to resell that loan without recourse to the lender because the investor buying that loan has a government guarantee. It is nice to see “free market” but a “free market” is out the window when the government decides to guarantee the debt because it is not “free” to the citizens of the US who have to pay. If we, as a government make a decision to help home ownership we need to have enough oversight and smarter economic people who are separate from the politics to manage the policy. Under the current scenerio, using Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in the same manner is a recipe for another disaster. If the Government is going to interfere with the free market system it has to at least be as smart as they are. The Federal Reserve, the SEC, Banking regulators and our government representative dropped the ball on the back of the citizens of the United States.

14. Danny Lucas
    October 5th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Not every bailout in the USA is bad.
    But this TRILLION dollar bailout IS bad, big time.

    Here is a good link to review them historically.
    The link is good because of Pro Publica.
    This outfit is nonprofit and their mission?
    Investigative journalism!

    “ProPublica is an independent, non-profit newsroom that produces investigative journalism in the public interest. We strive to foster change through exposing exploitation of the weak by the strong and the failures of those with power to vindicate the trust placed in them.”

    THAT caught my attention and I put them on my Favorites Bar.

    The link:shows 3 of the bailouts are 2008, and the prior one was 2001, the airlines. Bunches more before that too.
    From 2001 and prior, there is a final phrase “after the bailout”.

    Click that and see the results of EACH bailout on the taxpayers and doing what it was intended to do.
    This is investigative journalism at its best.

    (There is NO “after the bailout” for the 2008 three, since the consequences have yet to be revealed).

    http://www.propublica.org/special/government-bailouts/

    I have no problem with a loan like Chrysler got under Iacocca.
    It saves the company,…… and taxpayers are reinbursed.

    The problem on bailouts is an unintended consequence.

    As CEO of any Corporation, your sole purpose in life is to maximize shareholder profit.
    Social responsibility be damned.
    Lives shattered….tough.
    Offshore work…..fine!
    Whatever it takes, do it.
    End pensions and the government will let 401K’s be created.
    That is a do-it-yourself pension plan in lieu of corporate benefit ending it.

    Healthcare is an expense. It affects profits. Shut it down.
    We do not need healthy workers since workers are a dime a dozen.

    Now that we have established ALL of this, run that profit until it explodes.

    Create any bubble you want as long as the most obscene of profits and obscene CEO pay is encountered.

    Given our proclivity to bailout, it is now INCUMBANT on CEO’s to take any and all risk and even place themselves in risk, knowing bailout is always an option. Corporations can no longer lose. Only the taxpayers lose.

    LOANS, make them pay it back out of future profits and act as a brake mechanism on dreadful behavior.

    Bailouts are a CEO cue: ANYTHING GOES!

15. john morris
    October 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    One of the biggest problems is that the Treasury, FDIC,SEC and the FED have already done a series of shadow bailouts– pumping out money, banning short sales, extending FDIC insurance, lowering capital standards and perhaps worst of all promoting accounting fraud with the change in mark to market rules. Everyone somehow hopes that hiding grim facts will make them go away.

    The best single source of facts and insight might be Peter Schiff, who likely won’t be on CNBC, so that Jim kramer doesn’t have a stroke.

16. john morris
    October 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Here’s a link to some of the video’s I’ve been watching. The first eight are an extended speech by Peter Schiff before a buch of mortgage bankers in 2006. It was far from his first warning but it lays out the problem in detail.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/diggingpitt

    One point he raises is that it’s wrong to look at the collapse as being the problem. The real problem was the bubble itself– that was the disease. The bigger, the bubble, the bigger the inevitable collapse. He says it’s like an adict on drugs who complains that the pain of detox and rehab are the problem.

    I know it’s a lot to watch, but it’s very worthwhile

17. Danny Lucas
    October 7th, 2008 at 7:33 am

    The MOST interesting comment I have read post Bailout ——
    (the one that failed to jumpstart the economy) ——
    questions if it is Constitutional.

    The commentor wrote:

    Where is the National Taxpayers Union? It should by now have filed a class-action lawsuit to overturn the bailout because it was passed illegally by the Senate after its rejection by the House. The bailout is a money bill, and as such, the Constitution says quite clearly that money bills must be originated by and approved by the House before they can be passed by the Senate. This bailout is a 700 BILLION-DOLLAR RIP-OFF of the American taxpayer and it MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS. Don’t just throw the bums in Congress who voted for it out of office, get the courts to STRIKE IT DOWN!

    Posted By: SkeeterVT1 | October 07, 2008 at 05:26 AM