Outside Erie

12 Responses to “GOP Candidate for County Executive Offers His Platform”

1. George Vietze
   July 20th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

   Not many people would question a prudent philosophy or platform that recommends a conservative approach to fiscal policy and a careful look at how money should or should not be spent.

   Everything needs to be viewed in context. The State budget is in shambles and most municipalities have similar problems, the majority of the country is in a major recession but the specific question as to whether the Tullio Center should be viewed in the context that the Govenor, who is the proponent of this up-grading, right or wrong the Govenor is viewing Erie as the area that has the most potential to bring a substantial return to his total gambling program, based upon the results of the money that the Casino in Erie generates. He views the Erie area, based upon its demographics of being accessible to a major population base of both Canada and the United States. The infrastructure of attractions, beaches, entertainment, sports facilities,
   water parks, Convention Center, Bayfront, 5,500 hotel rooms are currently existing. He knows that the up-grading of the Tullio Center will add to the enhancement of the area and bring visitors/tourists to the Casino and the Erie area. He realizes, maybe incorrectley, that logic dictates that the Convention Center and the Bayfront will be synergized. He may or may not realize the impact of the local political situation but when the Airport extension got bogged down in local mish mash, he directed Jane Earl to spread the news that if the local people do not act, the State of Pa. will work toward regionization of the Airport.
   This Govenor, IMO, is using this budget crisis to support his views on FULL GAMING and lower his program to raise taxes by using gambling revenue to supplement the budget crisis. The east coast and the Chicago area are the biggest spending gambling demographics in the nation and they suround Pennsylvania and when you add hotels, convention centers, beaches, entertainment, sports and the fact that families want to be within a days drive of a vacation and you can add the “chance” of gambling it starts to become attractive to the average family and the bigger gamblers and beaches and yacht clubs and zoos and theme parks become an attractive investment and a great return on that investment, especially when most of that already exists and all that needs to happen is to upgrade some facilities, develop and redevelop Bayfront, build some up-scale hotels, approve full gaming and go to the BANK. It just takes a little VISION, but not really that much, if you think about it…………Erie could be the chosen location and the only one standing in the way is Erie, the State of Pennsylvania is already on that page…….Let’s see, the State will pay $32 of the $42 million to up-grade the Tullio Center….let’s see, maybe reduce the example to the facts….Erie owns a building in major dis-repair costing around $9million dollars (now all paid) some investor/angel said if you would put $10,000,000 of your money into improving the facility, I will put up $32million of my money, where would I end up, even looking at it on a COST BASIS, original cost $9million, my cost of improvements $10million, $32million from investor/angel bringing the total to $51,000,000. My cost $9million original plus $10million=19million.
   Total Value $51,000=additional equity $32million…….
   My only question would be…..Can we do that AGAIN! If I needed the $10million I put into upgrading that Asset into some other place like all the places the so called “conservative advisors” recommend you could borrow that money against the increased equity, put up by SOMEBODY ELSE, and the increased cash flow as a result of the re-developed asset would more than likley pay off that debt and you would still have an increased Asset,, spend the money ($10million) wherever you wanted to and an asset that cost $19million worth $51million….

   9 plus 10 plus 32=51 and if you believe that inflation is coming, and believe me it is, and we build that center now with cheaper costs in a deflationary economy and in ten years, those improvements will cost four to eight times more……..that asset worth $51million could be worth
   $150million in ten years based upon replacement costs………….

   That is not altruism or polly anIsh……..that is conservative MATH and most likely close to the FACTS…………..

   That is on a cost basis….not counting the synergistic effect on the area, the down town the county and the ability to be able to compete with more cosmopolitan communities that build ball parks and entertainment facilities and other municipal type facilities to enhance LIFESTYLE so MAYBE someone wants to live there………..

2. George Vietze
   July 20th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

   Forgot an important point…..if people decide Erie is really a great place to live and more people move here because Erie has all those attractions……more companies will follow and more jobs will be available for more people…..it kind of works that way………..!!!!

   It is going to happen, regardless of Erie because the State of Pa. is on that path, the existing Casino is in Summitt Township and Scott Enterprises does not need Erie’s approval to spend his money and the area will benefit and eventually Erie will join the party…..LATE……

3. Mike
   July 20th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

   Sorry George, but I disagree with your theory that if Erie has all the attractions, people and jobs will then come. That sounds like the “If you build it, they will come” mentality, and it just doesn’t work that way. You can and I don’t see people moving to the town in droves.

   Attractions won’t lure people or jobs here, a business friendly will lure the jobs, and the jobs will lure the people. People aren’t going to say, “Wow Erie has a (Casino, Water Park, etc), so I need to move to Erie.

   Unfortunately, the elected “leadership” in Erie seems to agree with George’s theory.

4. anonymous
   July 20th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

   We need an “audit” to find out specifically where those casino profits are going into downtown Erie and the Bayfront. Sorry, we don’t see it anywhere? Lets see…Casino taking money from the “poor” Erieites and the Waterpark is open 3 months during the year. What about the other 9 months? That doesn’t count?

5. George Vietze
   July 20th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

   Maybe I am missing something? Where did I ever say people will move to Erie in droves if Erie has a Casino, or attractions or anything like that. Erie does not have to have a Casino, especially if Erie does not want a Casino, on the Bayfront or anyplace else. It just eludes me to see a Casino as close to Erie as the one in Summitt Township when Erie receives almost none of the monetary affect and has a Casino in the area anyway. I just thought that since we already have a Casino that close and it generates $40million plus a week, a Casino on the Bayfront could pay Erie taxes and Erie could put a gambling city tax on their income, use their cash flow to build a theme park and help support the Convention Center and the downtown synergy.

   Every community gets to decide what it wants, Erie has every right to exclude a Casino from the Bayfront or any other place in Erie. Summitt Township and Nick Scott applaudes your philosophy and will carry that ball and burden. I already figured it out, unless the Govenor can figure a way to maximize his gambling goal for Erie to be the center for gambling in Pennsylvania it probably won’t happen in Erie because the existing Casino and Scott Enterprises will try to keep it in Summitt Township and Erie does not seem to have an interest in being proactive toward developing the Bayfront. It is time to concentrate on other areas of Erie’s potential.

6. Jim
   July 21st, 2009 at 6:05 am

   We really ought to use immense amount of caution when talking about this specific governor. He’s the same guy that sent us Herb Fiss, because Adams County didn’t want him, and the governor didn’t know what to do with him with an election coming up, so he sent him here, figuring we’d find a way to screw it up ourselves, and let him off the hook. It worked.
   This is the same governor that promised the Erie area funding for the Koehler project, and when that project ran into problems securing local financing, the money disappeared to other parts of the state.
   This is the same governor that saw the necessity of renovating the Warner Theater (a facility the state hold title to, just like with the Tullio arena) and now nearly a decade later it is still not completed, and the state enlargement, the main justification for the project in the first place, hasn’t even been started.
   So far, the Tullio Center hasn’t gotten anything. But the governor has gotten a lot of good press during a budget dispute with the legislature.
   Trusting this guy is risky business, a lesson we should have learned long before now. People ought to be looking at the state’s capital budget proposal, and how that capital budget is being treated during this latest budget crises.
   Promises are easy to make for political gain. Keeping them is not always a priority, as the Warner fiasco has shown. The one thing we can however rely upon, is that we will learn absolutely nothing from the experience, and can be properly relied upon to fall for political posturing. Apparently the governor learns quicker than we do.

7. George Vietze
   July 21st, 2009 at 8:18 am

   Interesting point Jim, from my perspective it has nothing to do with trusting the Govenor or not trusting the government, frankly I have very little faith or trust in most governments, they are about power and money and not much of anything else. That said, my line of thinking about Erie and the State of Pennsylvania is strickly following the MONEY
   that the State of Pa. views as coming from the Casino in the Erie area that get deposited in the State of Pennsylvania bank account every WEEK. Money and power is the language that the political game evolves around. TRUST, are you talking to ME…..Get over that line of thought……trust TULLIO….????? It might not do my health any good to start listing names…….It is not about trust, Erie for whatever reason was chosen to be the place someone put the Casino and Racetrack and it seriously generates MONEY for the State of Pa..,anything that GOVENOR RENDELL or anyone else who has any control over that
   MONEY and that will keep that MONEY FLOWING IS ALL THEY CARE ABOUT…..IT IS NOT ERIE.., IT IS WHAT CAN ERIE DO FOR THEM…

   Sorry, about the emphasis, I just wanted to make sure I was understood. I am optomistic about Erie because this area has great demographics and great potential and some great people who really care about this area and to me it represents a wonderful community in mostly a rural setting with great potential for me and others.

   I do not even know Nick Scott, heard of him, know he did a great job improving the Peach Street area and that he has a great reputation as a person and has the incentive, knowledge and investment to improve both his assets and Erie…..period….he needs political help and the Governor needs as much money as he can get from Erie and will do whatever can do to keep that flowing….I am just following the people with the most money and incentive and power to get things done FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, which hopefully will trickle down to the community. The problem with the local politics and politicians may be in the same boat, how much money can flow to them and maybe they will let some of that flow to the rest of the community, but Erie is not different than any other community…..it is not about TRUST., give me a BREAK……….

8. Jim
   July 21st, 2009 at 8:55 am

   George, I understand your thought process. I just can’t entirely buy into it. Since the state holds title to both the Warner and Tullio facilities, if your comments relative to their revenue from gaming impacting other spending in this area actually applied, then how come the Warner is not done? It should be a priority to get the completed, in a more timely fashion, illustrating their commitment to enhancing their revenue stream. Frankly, I simply don’t think it is as much of an importance as you think it is. The money is flowing whether they complete the Warner or not, whether they do Tullio or not. The question is whether the state will act to protect the competitive advantage PID currently enjoys, or sit and watch as Ohio acts to recapture Ohio revenue being lost in Pennsylvania. If we allow that to happen, knowing that MTR is already looking at Ohio to enhance their revenues, given Pennsylvania’s tax structure, then the way I see it, Ohio has a potential for more investment by MTR than Erie, if their return on investment is higher there. Where would that leave us with Harrisburg then?

9. George Vietze
   July 21st, 2009 at 9:17 am

   Jim, I agree with most of what you say, certainly if MTR sees it is in their best interest to go to Ohio or anyplace else and make more money, they or anyone else will go their. Your point that the money will flow to the Casino regardless of whether they fix up the Tullio Center, Warner Theatre or other attractions I question because in the long haul the more updated our attractions are the more attractive they are to the community and our visitors and if they take a long term view it is in their interest to keep the Erie area as appealing to as many people as they can. Your point on Ohio is a very key point because Ohio represents 30%-40% of that Casino’s gross revenue and it will affect seriously the income of both the Casino and the race track. You certainly may be correct that I put too much emphasis on the importance of the money from the Casino…….Time will tell…..wait for the next chapter….will the Govenor or the State of Pa. push FULL GAMING or let Ohio siphon off some of the Pa. revenue????? Good comment, Jim…

10. Tom
    July 21st, 2009 at 10:42 am

    Can anybody point me to the extensive list of conventions scheduled at our convention center this summer?
    I ask because I haven’t seen crowds of conventioneers stumbling around town this summer.
    Oh, wait, I found the schedule:
    http://www.bayfrontconventioncenter.com/schedule/
    The Kiwanis in August. That’s it.
    Is it too early to declare the con center a White Elephant?
    Actually, it’s too late.
    How much did it cost the taxpayers to bring one pseudo convention to town this year?
    How do we hold the con center crooks accountable?

11. Jim
    July 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    The same people who sold us on the convention center, are currently selling us on both the Tullio renovations and the community college. Not only does no one hold them accountable, to the contrary it seems Erie actually celebrates there efforts, successful or not. As for the convention center in specific, I wonder how much business it has taken from Paul Nelson’s Rainbow Gardens, or from the Shrine Club, or from the Bel-Aire Hotel, or any number of other existing Erie venues, most of which are tax paying businesses. The convention center has mainly just stolen existing business from other venues, whose taxes go to subsidize its operation, in addition to the business lost to it. The argument that it was going to bring in vast amounts of new business to Erie, was a stretch when they were selling it then, and a good question now, to which it will be like pulling teeth to get answers on, because no one wants to admit that the critics, who questioned the economic growth potential being claimed when the project was being sold, have been thus far proven to have been correct. Is it a nice facility? Yes. Do I attend and enjoy events there? Yes. Did I attend those same events in the past at other venues? Yes. Did it bring in vast amounts of new business and visitors to Erie? No. As for being a white elephant, many had dubbed it such even before the county council assumed the risk on it and the convention center hotel, and floated a bond issue to cover part of its cost, and deflected the majority of the hotel tax away from marketing Erie and towards debt service.
    As for your question regarding how much it cost the taxpayers to bring one convention to Erie, the answer is nothing, because the money had already been spent, whether they brought one or fifty-two conventions to town. (The money was well spent providing a fine venue to host former President Bush’s visit to Erie. I’m kidding.)
    The question that ought to be asked, is whether Erie would have gotten a bigger economic boost by using less money than the convention center and hotel cost, to renovate the Tullio Center. I would submit the potential to draw out of town people to shows and sporting events is as big or bigger than the economic benefit we are seeing from out of town attendees at conventions, and the renovation would have cost less than half as much. Since that question isn’t even being asked, while planning more such public spending, without concern about the impact this continual public spending has on the cost of doing business here is one of the reasons some of us old timers get so frustrated.

12. TJ
    July 22nd, 2009 at 12:53 am

    Erie should not take offense to the decision.

    GE’s strategy obviously includes distressed areas. Based on the frequent trips I take to the Schenectady area, I can assure you that the cost of labor their is probably lower there AND the new plant would be located closer to it’s other pertinent strategic business units (google map “General Electric” (zoom out) and you will see that Erie is relatively isolated)

    However, I would have loved to have been a mouse in that board meeting.