Outside Erie

40 Responses to “Gay Marriage? Don’t We Have More Pressing Concerns?”

1. Rob
   May 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

   It is election season. Why do something constructive such as improving education or fix roads when you can pander for votes?

2. Ray D.
   May 10th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

   Sometimes you have to play defense.

   For all of recorded human history, marriage has meant the union of a man and a woman. Now some people are trying to redefine this. The people who are pushing for same-sex marriage are the ones causing the trouble, not the ones who are trying to preserve the definition of marriage that has been universally accepted for millenia.

   BTW, this will affect our competitiveness. If companies are forced to offer benefits to same-sex couples, then costs will be affected, especially since certain behaviors lead to AIDS, which is very costly to treat.

3. Rob
   May 11th, 2008 at 1:16 am

   At the end of the day, most people don’t care about the same-sex marrage issue. Because I consider myself an educated voter, I take into consideration many issues when I decide who to vote for.

   One thing that I think would be interesting to study, would be that for as many votes as politicians pick up by supporting issues like this, how many votes do they lose by supporting issues like this? It always makes headlines by supporting issues like this (they pick up the ‘conservative’ vote…but how many people who support gay marrage will vote to the left to negate the conservative vote?

   I am willing to suspect that in the long run, the two basically cancel each other out…which makes the whole point mute in the first place…

4. Grant
   May 11th, 2008 at 3:44 am

   “The people who are pushing for same-sex marriage are the ones causing the trouble…”

   Since when is pushing for equal rights considered causing trouble?

   “costs will be affected, especially since certain behaviors lead to AIDS, which is very costly to treat.”

   Wow, AIDS is not an illness based strictly on homosexual behavior. There are many ways that the disease is transmitted. Claiming that companies will have to treat AIDS between a married gay couple is a very uninformed argument and you should be ashamed for making it. Gay couples are capable of being in a monogamous relationship just as easily as a “traditional” couple.” Equating gay people with infidelity serves only to reinforce the negative connotations that are wrongly applied to gay people.

   Basing an argument in tradition is not much better. For a long time many states made it illegal for an interracial couple to marry or live together. Now, its obvious to see those laws were unfair and unconstitutional. Traditions aren’t necessarily correct and should not be upheld due only to a long standing tradition. Of course, there are many different situations when tradition be protected, but marriage is a fundamental right and no person should be denied the ability to exercise this right.

5. James
   May 11th, 2008 at 4:37 am

   Grant said
   “… marriage is a fundamental right and no person should be denied the ability to exercise this right.”

   I agree whole heartedly, as long as the marriage is between a man and a woman.

6. Heavy D
   May 11th, 2008 at 8:42 am

   Marriage is NOT about expressing how much you love someone and how you want everyone to know it; it’s about taming the predatory sexual instincts of men and providing an environment to raise children. We seen the ’success’ of eliminating to ‘need’ for marriage with the huge numbers of single mothers out there because they are told fathers aren’t needed. The by far the biggest factor in child poverty is coming from a single parent home.

   Marriage evolved over thousands of years as the best way to raise children, and we’ve been working to kill it for less than 50.

   Funny how gays & lesbians constantly attack the Church and religion but now want one of the most revered institutions of that Church for their own.

7. Dale
   May 11th, 2008 at 9:04 am

   Who wants to stick what where is their own business, but the descriptive word is not marriage! Sodomy, maybe? Let’s not sully and disgrace the sanctity of man/woman marriage by allowing all the abominable, disordered relationships to be given the same level of honor and creditability.

8. Daria
   May 11th, 2008 at 10:31 am

   Politically, {if we are looking at the ” issue ” of Gay Marriage from that stand point,} the reason it has become an issue on the ballots is so long term partners, regardless of sexual orientation, benefit from concerns related to Health Care Benefits, and receive the same respect of a long term relationship, by sharing in benefit packages offered by some companies to cover spouses and children. Many couples in same sex relationships, are also parents to adopted children. These ” families ” are most often not given the same financial benefits or healthcare. Will it make Pennsylvania more competitive, cure health care issues, cut down on crime, improve schools? I have no idea! What I do know is that the folks who are in support of gay marriage on the ballots for the most part, are hard working concerned citizens, who are often raising children together, and are seeking recognition of their responsible relationships in order to take care of their families and partners, just as those in a “traditonal ” marriage do.
   Grant is correct is stating “Equating gay people with infidelity serves only to reinforce the negative connotations that are wrongly applied to gay people.” It also ” assumes” that because a person is gay, they are promiscuous. Associating promiscuity and sexual orientation (someone has not been watching Paris & Nicole !!! ) is an ignorance we can’t afford to promote in our society. Most of us do not consider something a ” pressing concern ” until it affects our lives Directly. Then, somehow, it becomes a priority. AIDS is not a disease that seeks out primarily gay partners, as once ” assumed “. Statistics on AIDS currently show the growing numbers are African Americans, women and children ( under the age of 15 ) http://www.globalhealthreporting.org/diseaseinfo.asp?id=23#us
   Let’s be cautious when throwing out our littered minds fills, and dicriminating behaviors.

   I once had a very formidable boss, who had a favorite statement for me, his right hand person. To ASSUME is to make an ASS out of U and ME.
   He not only said this to me on almost a weekly basis, but he himself, never for all his pompous behaviors : > , ASSUMED anything. I learned alot from watching this man practice what he preached. So I think the initial question Peter tossed out here was………………. what? Oh, more pressing issues to deal with right now, do you agree?

9. Mike
   May 11th, 2008 at 11:17 am

   the lack of compassion in the comments on ths thread, from the usual suspects, is why I stopped visiting this site. GOD forbid anyone be unlike youselves. The leaders of Erie’s anti-diversity campaign are uniting on ‘Global’-Erie.

10. Peter Panepento
    May 11th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Clearly, this is a sensitive issue. I wasn’t posing the question to begin a debate about gay and lesbian issues — but rather to ask whether our politicians should be devoting time to hot-button legislation that does nothing more than inflame people.

    The irony is that by posing the question, I’ve now created a thread that is doing nothing more than inflaming people.

    Folks, I want this to continue to be an open forum. I think those who are against gay marriage can express their opposition without resorting to name calling or making value judgments about others.

11. Abril
    May 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    As a former Erieitie who now lives in Chicago, it distresses me to see time and energy wasted on legislation that will either thwart or benefit a very small percentage of Pennsylvania’s populace.

    As the original post stated schools, crime, jobs,etc. are the areas that need to be addressed! What consenting adults do in the bedroom should be no one’s business!

    I used to live in Chicago’s Boystown. As a straight woman I have never felt safer. The area was clean, vibrant and economically healthy.

    I take great offense to the poster who stated people who are pushing the same sex marriage issue are causing trouble.

    Ever heard of the acronym = DINKS?

    Double Income No Kids.

    Contrary to beliefs of neighborhoods turning into Sodom and Gommorah,the neighborhood I lived in was anything but.
    Houses,condos beautiful. Lawns and parks immaculate. Boutique shopping nearby. Not much of a troubled neighborhood.

    I worked as a school nurse in a very blighted neighborhood on the west side of Chicago. No job opportunites where the average family size is one woman, 4-5 children. No husband. And not because he’s gay, but because he is busy making more children or in prison.

    If we had to focus on a moral issse here, gay marriage should not be the priority. The MORAL issue of single parenting should be the concern in my opinion. What we should be paying attention to are STRAIGHT Women who don’t have the power or the self esteem to say no and STRAIGHT MEN who contine to impregnate and leave woman after women thus peretuating the cycle of poverty and crime, sexually transmitted diseases, etc.

12. john morris
    May 11th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Heavy D,

    You really have never explained how extending the the same right to enter into long term commited relationships to same sex couples is an attack on marriage. It seems like a convenient cycle– commited relationships are not legaly recognised so then one can say gays are promiscuous.

13. Heavy D
    May 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    I never said they couldn’t have the right, they just can’t have the name. Marriage is already taken.

    Getting back the economics of this issue: if employers feel they need to compete for employees than they can CHOOSE to provide it. Just like employers CHOOSE not to pay minimum wage in order to compete against other employers for quality talent.

    Google provides daycare and back rubs and gourmet lunches to their employees. it’s their choice. Some companies don’t even provide health insurance, again that is their choice. Don’t like it? Don’t work for them!

14. Rob
    May 11th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    This is clearly an issue that divides people. However, as I stated above, I am interested to see how many people who support banning gay marriage, as to those who support gay marriage to see where the chips lay.

    I think that at the end of the day, the two groups largely cancel each other out. But I also think it will be difficult to measure that, because I think many people will not be honest with the public.

    It will take time, but eventually, the American public will stop being hypocrites (the ‘political right’) and respect people for who they really are. Having the first non-white male (read: African-American) president will help bridge the divide and hopefully unite the country. Then we can get over these stupid petty issues and focus on the real problems the country faces…

15. Andy
    May 11th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    It’s sad that politicians use issues like this and flag-burning and overhyped environmental issues to benefit themselves at the cost of the people. They want to drum up support, create an outrage that will carry over into their next election. It’s disgusting how so few people have a balanced viewpoint and instead end up believing what their republican or democratic leaders tell them to. I think everyone realizes that politicians never give you the whole story but yet very few people can see both sides of an issue. I’m not commenting on the people on this site just saying that our leaders are letting us down, and since we pick the leaders we are really letting ourselves down.

    There are so many better things the congress could do. Healthcare, illegal immigration, and the deficit all need fixed at the Federal level, and issues like a smoking ban, full gaming at the casinos and the I-80 toll road need addressed in PA.

16. Rob
    May 11th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    Exactly Andy. Issues like this are just pandering to a small percentage of the population. But it is stuff like this that gets the headlines on the 6 p.m. news or in the morning newspaper.

    Someday, the gay marriage issue will not be an issue. I have no idea when that will be, but when it happens, the United States will be a better place because of it…

17. Heavy D
    May 11th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Andy & Rob,

    I agree that this issue is a non-starter given all the other problems. peter could have just as easily flipped it and asked for input on legalization of same sex marriage/civil unions and we could have talked about the people pushing that view rather than those opposed. The framing of the issue is hugely important to public perception.

    I do think the smoking ban is pretty low on the list of things to do in PA though. But with what 205 state representatives trying to make a political name for themselves these issues come up more in PA than say California where they only have 80 representatives for a much bigger state. ( see I managed to work in: government is too big and spends too much!)

18. Daria
    May 11th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    Mike,
    “The leaders of Erie’s anti-diversity campaign are uniting on ‘Global’-Erie. ” Did you miss my post? Global Erie is not limited to the Like minded, but it is a forum where folks do express their opinions. At the end of my post I noted that Peter’s original question was…”more pressing issues to deal with right now, do you agree? ” Peter also responded gracefully admitting that this turned into a gay and lesbian debate which was not his intent at all. Rosa Parks was once also a sensitive issue.. let’s not abandon ship ( aka Global Erie ) due to some opinions that we don’t agree with. Freedom of speech is too important of an issue to turn your back on, wouldn’ t you agree?

19. Mike
    May 11th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Whether or not you agree with gay marriage, I don’t see why our governement needs to waste time with this when we have soldiers getting killed in Iraq, our dollar is going into the tank, and the real estate sector is in the midst of a collapse that I don’t think is over yet. I could care less if two gay men or women want to get married, and I don’t feel it’s the governments business either. There are many issues in this country that affects nearly all of our lives, and this is not one of them.

20. Daria
    May 11th, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    Yay Mike! Glad to see your reply! That’s the angle I ” think ” Peter was aiming for with his original post! Hang out with Global Erie and offer those insights! I am very new to this ” blog ” outlet on Global Erie, but I think generating and sharing ideas and thoughts is the way we pave the road to success!

21. Michael Mahler
    May 12th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Obviously, where I stand on the issue itself is probably relatively well known. I am not seeing why this issue needed to be taken up by the state legislature, when there are far more pressing needs and issues.

    I have also fielded phone calls from skilled workers who were considering relocating to Erie. Pushing this legislation not only doesn’t help Pennsylvania, but it drives away people who might move here and pay taxes. This is borne out by a study from 2001 by Richard Florida and Gary Gates (as noted in Richard Florida’s “The Rise of the Creative Class”) which found that gay-tolerant areas tended to be the most likely to have high tech industries. Legislation that is used to attack the rights of GLBT people is not just non-productive, it stands a very real chance of hurting us economically.

22. George Vietze
    May 12th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Interesting thread, the question is whether we should take the time to focus on the “gay rights” issue or are other issues more important?
    I guess that depends to whom the issue is important to and what lense we are looking through as to the priority of issues.

    It seems to me that tolerance of issues that protect all of our rights should be important to everyone. The breakdown of that culture lead to the distruction of an entire group of people, let us not forget that if we do not look out for all of us when they come for you or the issues that are important to you, if we all take a blind eye no one of us will be safe.
    Open minds whether we agree with particular issues is important to our culture. Everyone is at a different level of enlightenment at any given point in time in our lives and these issues are never going to be agreed to or solved by everyone, just be tolerant to other points of view and your point of view will be listened to in the process.

    When a black person and a woman are running for the Presidency that shows movement in the area of tolerance. Sexual orientation should not take the total hit for morality, Bill Clinton, I believe is straight, and is an example of how imperfect we all are as humans, but as far as I know, being human is the only game in town. None of us are perfect, (except you and I. ) Lighten up and be tolerant and you will receive the same respect and all of our lives will be improved. Does not mean we all have to agree on all or any issues ,as this forum is an example ,but we broaden our ability to tolerate other points of view with a more open mind. What may not be an important issue to one ,may be life changing to another. It is all in the eyes of the beholder….

23. Lita
    May 12th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    I wouldn’t make light of the gay marriage issue. Some people believe it is the reason why Ohio swung for Bush in 2004. Apparently, voting for a gay marriage ban was on the ballot with the presidential candidates in Ohio. Social conservatives lined up in droves.

    AND look what is about to happen… another presidential election coming up. Could PA go red like OH did in 2004? Maybe there are other states out there who could follow OH’s trend.

24. Wizo
    May 12th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    if they ban gay marriage in PA would Philly have to change their motto from ‘The City of Brotherly Love’ to ‘The City of Brotherly and Sist’…..uh, nevermind.

25. MGR
    May 12th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Here’s an idea to kill two birds with one stone - let’s simultaneously pass a smoking ban and then shift the impending tobacco tax deficit that will result to gay marriage licenses. We’ll get cleaner air, reduce our medical expenses, cover the budget shortfall, and gain new residents. Everything’s got a price right?

    Plus, once cigarrettes are a black market item, PA drug dealers here won’t waste their time on things with thin demand like marijuana and cocaine, the big bucks will be in tobacco. As a bonus, we can reduce our drug enforcement expenditures since no one in the government will really care who is smoking in their own home or in a shady “smoke-easy”.

26. Jack Tirak
    May 12th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    The issue serves no other purpose than political. Not a single minute of precious debate should be spent on such a non-issue.

    Don’t we have enough to worry about?

27. MGR
    May 12th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Aww come on Jack, I thought my idea was pretty constructive. $25K each or more would be quite a racket.

28. Dale
    May 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    Ummm, I think that’s what Peter said a long, long, time ago. I hereby withdraw my post submitted earlier during the heat of discussion. It was SOOoooo off-topic.

29. MGR
    May 12th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Maybe as an enhancement to Globalerie, certain topics such as this one could just be set up as simple opinon polls. Over time, that collection of polls might reflect some interesting results that are more telling than the posts. Just a thought.

30. Tom
    May 12th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    For a “waste of time” issue it sure has generated a lot of debate.
    Everyone has an opinion and the question is ; How should it be resolved?
    Abraham Lincoln warned in his second inaugural address that every time we allow judges to decide issues, we sacrifice a measure of our freedom. He was speaking of the horrendous Dred Scott decision that he blamed for the Civil War.
    We should learn from history and keep this issue away from the judges. That leaves two options.
    Option one is a legislative resolution where the politicians write the law, vote on the law and we live with it.
    Option two is a constitutional amendment. In that case the politicians propose an amendment to define marriage and the people vote on it, and the (state) judges have no role at all.
    I prefer the constitutional amendment process because it gives the people a direct vote on the issue.
    This issue is hardly a waste of time as evidenced by the millions of dollars being spent in this election cycle to elect politicians committed to changing the definition of marriage across the country.
    When radical activist stop attacking marriage then we will no longer need to defend the institution.

31. Melissa
    May 13th, 2008 at 9:39 am

    Abril, I think your comment was skipped over - and you made an EXCELLENT point - one that is typically overshadowed. If you look at the breakdown of many GLBT communities, you do find less crime. You find less of the ‘baby-mama’ drama that plagues the lower class hetero society. So much of our welfare class has a visible problem with unwanted pregnancies and dependency on WIC and other government programs. Many GLBT couples adopt children and raise them in a much better environment than they would have otherwise had. I’d love to know what is so WRONG with this?

    If the matter was viewed in a legal sense - i.e. the rights of same-sex couples in legal proceedings, financial matters, benefits, etc. opposed to looking at this as the typical “OH NO, they can’t have a marriage ceremony because that’s against all things holy!” I think this topic could be handled in a more mature fashion.

32. TJ
    May 13th, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Ray D’s response made me laugh!

    That’s Erie for ya’.

    Yes, Peter, there are certainly much larger issues to be dealt with. People simply need to draw a circle around themselves and be concerned about what is on the inside. My advice to people like Ray is: raise your kids the way you think is right. If you do it wrong, society will punish both of you. So make sure you do it right.

    I’m not gay, don’t care about abortion (since it is physically impossible) and don’t care about other people’s religious beliefs–but certainly people shouldn’t think any of those opinions belong in politics. I elect a politician to do a job of running a business, not forming a particular culture or nurturng a religion.

33. Julio C. Reyes
    May 15th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Peter,

    Regardless of the cost involved in this process either against and or in favor and regardless of other far more important critical issues affecting the country at this time the show will continue.

    The California Supreme court just overturned the Gay Marriage Ban and as you could see the parties will continue the fight in the November ballots.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080515/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage

    It is just logical to think that Pennsylvanians will do the same.

    We should expect a good fight in the future. Maybe we should start thinking about charging Pay-Per-View.

34. George Vietze
    May 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Julio, I made my way to downtown Erie for an early morning meeting at Strabucks on State Street and decided to drive Parade Street and take your invitiation to do a little shopping. My first stop was Kraus Dept. Store where I met Tom Nowosielski who currently said he owns the store together with his brothers Joe and Louie, after telling him I comment on globalerie and Julio Reyes invited me to stop and shop on Parade Street he immediately gave you a character reference or said you were a character, I’m not quite sure, but I asked if they had any space heaters left because most stores in town have put them away in place of air conditioners, he immediately invited me “upstairs” to a private storage space where I had the opportunity to view so very old historic family photos and got a personal tour behind the scenes of one of the most interesting retail facilities that I had ever been to, it was such a privilege and opportlunity to visit the backroom of this unique and historic store. As I progressed up Parade Street, I stopped at Erie Antiques and Todd the owner gave me a tour of his store which is filled with antiques of the area. I then visited the Nickel Plate and bought some bird seed and hummingbird food.

    While I was waiting for my meeting a Starbucks I came across a beautiful boutique shop on 5th Street just around the corner from Starbucks and was impressed with the beautiful fairly high end inventory and spoke with the owners Judy Tucci and Barbara Corbett
    who said they have only recently started this venture and we had a discussion about globalerie and they mentioned that one of them was on the board of the downtown re-development committee. I immediately mentioned that they should not forget about the Parade Street area in their plans, I know that the focus in on the downtown area and from what I can gather the people involved have interests in that area. We talked about the new parking garage and the buildings that are proposed to be remodeled and the potential of the Bayfront
    and there seems to be a renewed spirit in Erie that this town is on a new path of growth and people are excited about the future. I invited them to join the globalerie network or at least read what this site has to offer the community as this area enters the new phase of developments. Thanks Julio, those types of unique meetings leads to understanding that shopping in the local community stores supports the neighborhoods and the community and its not just about the absolutlely lowest price for everything, a connection to the local community ties us all closer together as residents and neighbors.

35. MGR
    May 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    To jump on Parade Street for just a second, can anyone figure out why, given the long known demand for a grocery store near the middle (previously 19th and Parade), the alternative that emerged will be a corner store down on lower Parade? I heard somebody say they needed somewhere to get “milk and eggs” and I scratched my head as if the Shell Station at 6th and Parade does not exist?

    Julio, perhaps you can figure this one out - why in the world has no one considered the vacant Eckerd building at 26th and Parade? It is certainly in far superior condition, is in a better traffic location, has more parking, and would be cheaper than building from scratch?

36. Julio C. Reyes
    May 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    MGR,

    Thank you for asking. I have no idea but based on my experience with Real State and public money projects in Erie I could only speculate as follow:

    1. While the building you are referring to could be an excellent location already ready for retail the problem might be price. According to the Erie County Assessment Office that location for tax purposes is valued at 2.4 Million Who in their right mind wants to pay a higher price or lease when there are so many empty buildings and space in the whole region especially on Parade and State Sts.

    http://www.eriecountygov.org/government/assessment/parcelprofile.aspx?parcelid=18050019012200

    2. There is a huge difference between a convenience store like the one you mention on 6th and Parade and a supermarket. Beside price is variety and kind of food.
    3. I think because it might be a public project with all the tax subsidies and tax free zones. Building a new building might be cheaper but who knows.
    4. I am afraid that even if they open a true supermarket in the Lower Parade as they announced they will remain on business for the long haul. Of course I wish them the best but it all depends in quality, pricing and client base. These days’ even people that had been on the grocery business for generations are struggling because the tax subsidies given to companies like Wal-Mart and others.

37. Julio C. Reyes
    May 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    George,

    I am glad you started discovering Parade St. good for you!

    You said:

    “Tom Nowosielski who currently said he owns the store together with his brothers Joe and Louie, after telling him I comment on globalerie and Julio Reyes invited me to stop and shop on Parade Street he immediately gave you a character reference or said you were a character”

    George, Yes twice: yes, Tom and his family own the place and yes I am a “Character”. If we meet one day you will also get the same opinion about me.

    In regards, to the “boutique shop on 5th Street” do you have a name and/or address? Granted Erie is a little town but it will be easier for me to find the place in my next visit to town. I always go shopping and patronize local business as much as I can.

    Talking about 5th street, I hope you were able to visit Glass Growers Gallery. Their address is 10E 5th Street. If you stop by in that Gallery, ask for Debbie, I am pretty sure she will definitively confirm that I am indeed a “Character”.

    In regards to drinking coffee in “Starsucks” (this is the name the High School kids in California call Starbucks
    because its price and quality. You might consider getting a better deal in McDonalds or even better just patronized some of the local coffee shops in the area. Who knows you might talk with the owner and they will let you see pictures and share memories the way you did it on Parade St.

    Disclaimer:

    My wife, my older daughter and my niece love to go out to have coffee and some times they decide to go to Starbucks and I go with them. So people could see me sometimes in Starbucks. I always say hello to the people I know and chit chat and enjoy the time with my family at their premises but no, I do not drink Starbuck’s coffee.

38. George Vietze
    May 16th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    Julio, the name of the local shop on w. 5th. St., is Accents by the Bay, I felt a little uncomfortable naming the store because I don’t want to use the post to advertise anyplace, but your question needs an answer.
    Julio, I also am a “character”, I enjoyed my day like I do everyday just meeting all kinds of special people, its the way I live my life. I was brought up in the little Italy of Boston in my “hood”, moved to the suberbs latter, learned to shoot dice and ready books and everything in between. I have had four aces and four deuces and everyhand is a good hand because it is the one dealt at “that time”, like they say, it is all good. You don’t have any license for being the only “character” it’s all about attitude.
    Hang with Erie a little longer and watch it “explode” into a even greater community. It is all about vision, some see land and buildings and others see opportunity…granted I don’t have your history, maybe too much knowledge about someplace is a constraint because you know where the rocks lay, I am on this site to find out where some of the rocks are so I don’t step where I am not supposed to….everyday is an experience, I don’t have that California traffic, high price real estate, plastic people (except in the “hood” neighborhood), Erie has mostly good people, some a little white and tight but mostly good people, your comment about a border is real but who owns that problem, certainly not you, you can’t change that aspect of anyplace, only time, the old will pass and hopefully the children will leave that in the past, no place is perfect, I have learned, over my 70 years, not to buy into other people’s negative, but there was a time when that was not the case and my guess is that you were a priest in comparison, if you can believe that.
    Parade Street is my “gateway” to the City and I frankly, like the texture and opportunity it offers but it should not be neglected because it is not the place of the “favorites”.

    Later, from the “chingone” (My El Paso nickname) or as the gavacho’s called me “computer george” or Jorge, if you prefer……

39. Julio C. Reyes
    May 16th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

    George,

    I was not going to answer your post but I think I need to, just proper Spanish that’s all. I hope you do not mind.

    The correct use for your nick name from El Paso should be “El Chingon” because is singular, the term in plural should be “Los Chingones” . You already know what the term means, but just for the record and the readers: used as a nick name “El Chingon” is a compliment. The word “chingone” is just a miss interpretation/mispronunciation (similar problem with Tamal, Tamale and Tamales) between singular and plural and does not exist in the Spanish dictionary.

    The most important issue in this post is that the term “Gavacho” or Gabacho” is truly derogative/ pejorative. You could check the dictionary at your convenience. I will encourage you to avoid using that term. For the most that term reflects hate, bigotry, ignorance, discrimination and fear. I am sure that some “locals” might qualify for that name but not even in my wildest dreams and/or worst moments I will dare to call anybody that name.

    I am sorry about this correction but it is really important for me to keep a higher level of Spanish in the region. In fact, I give kids tours in my place in a regular basis and I need to protect my image about knowing how to use proper Spanish.

    I also want to make it clear that my definition of the Border is just that. I always presented it as a fact, no emotional strings attached. To the contrary the place (Erie) is so small that I only laugh about it.

    Thank you for your words. I always see the opportunity everywhere not just in Erie. Life has treated me very well and I am just sincerely happy the way I am. I am 53 years old, good job, I have no reasons to complaint, great family and a lot of friends everywhere. I am always looking forward to meet more people with a story to tell to me it does not matter if the people are blue, white, black, yellow, purple, rich, poor, educated, ignorant, etc ….. etc… or somewhere in between.

    Regards,

40. George Vietze
    May 16th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Julio, sorry for the misuse of Spanish, obviously I do not know the proper use of the Spanish language but was trying to demonstrate a point and keep the conversation “real” and not dance around some realities, I was in El Paso where it is 85% Hispanic and other places like Erie where the percentage is much lower. I understand both sides of that conversation, just wanted to make you aware so we can get on with the important business of moving Erie forward, but thank for the clarification, I will be more careful, no slight intended on both sides of the fence. I guess I was wrong and misunderstood the comments of East vs West and crossing borders from one side of town to the other, I could not tell it was a “joke”, I thought is was referring to some sort of separation between neighborhoods, sorry for the inference, I thought it was a situation that needed “light”, not that it needed focus because it is something that should not be expanded by undue focus but unless it is a least touched upon it is hard to work through. Sorry, I guesss it is not a problem that needs discussion in Erie and we can get back to our
    positive agenda of moving Erie forward.