Outside Erie

30 Responses to “Erie Scores Wicked Low on Latest Forbes List”

1. Mike
   March 20th, 2008 at 10:40 am

   Many people I went to high school and college with in the 90’s who were from Erie have left for these reasons. It’s sad to see all these people go elsewhere because they can’t find a job in Erie.

   The reason the cost of living is lower is because of how low the wages are. I’d be more interested in the cost of living in relation to the wage scale.

   I hope the leaders of Erie take note of these statistics and try to figure out how to reverse this downward trend. But that’s probably asking too much.

2. Rob
   March 20th, 2008 at 10:58 am

   As a recent college grad, I have to say that report is pretty spot on. My job search towards the end of my college career started with Erie, and most of my responses were met by the sounds of crickets. I only had one interview locally, and it was not even for a specific job. There just was nobody hiring people of my education/skill level in Erie.

   However, once I expanded my job search nationwide, companies could not fly me all over the country fast enough for interviews. I almost felt like I was beginning to know the TSA workers at the airport on a first name basis, I was traveling so much.

   Long story short, I ended up in St. Louis, where the cost of living is about the same as Erie (some things are cheaper but others are more expensive). However, the salary I make here is far more than what I could be making back in Erie and the prospects for career advancement are much higher.

   One of the more positive things that I have experienced moving here, is that people are not so negative about the town. Sure there are always improvements to be made, but by and far, Erie is it’s own worst enemy because pessimism is abound. Perhaps if the people of Erie quit being so negative and so self-loathing, the outside perception would change, and these numbers might go up. But until that happens, continue to expect to see trends like this continue.

3. Danny Lucas
   March 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

   When the toilet is being flushed, it does not matter what part of the water you are in; it is all going down.

   Erie is hardly the only flush location. We are going down in many sectors and locations nationally. There is a common lament in this forum that local leadership is abysmal. Surprise! National leadership, in terms of looking out for USA interests, are worse.

   In terms of people leaving Erie, this does not bother me one whit. I see no reason that this place become the dwelling place of the nation. Some locales are in decline; others are absorbing more population. None of that really matters, provided the nation is strong and there is someplace for anyone. Our view on Erie and retaining folks is small and parochial. I find it immensely rewarding that we can churn out so many graduates to meet the needs of our country. At the same time, we have an education industry that apparently produces some good quality staff for companies nationwide.

   Businesswise, I looked at Rob’s situation above and recall my last visit to St. Louis. While it is true that Rob landed on his feet and has a great paying job with reasonable amenities in the life quality sector, I have a sneaking suspicion that his upward mobility had as much to do with another individual getting introduced to downward mobility.

   In an interview for a job, it is common to ask “Is this a new position or a replacement for another?”. If new, you follow up with where the company is headed and how you can move them along. If replacement, you want to know why the job opened up (is this a crap outfit to work for? are the pay scales low? is advancement impossible? did they die?).

   I have a hunch that Rob landed upward, and businesswise, someone else went down the sliding board. Regardless of Rob’s field, (I have no clue), if you can replace a $120,000 slot with a grad at $60,000 to do the same work, it will most assuredly be done.

   Meanwhile, that flushing sound you hear and feel is a pile of $120,000 folks being replaced.

   I will change directions here toward a new, but related topic.

   Perhaps you recall Columbine and the shooting that shook everyone. Same with Virginia Tech mess. Immediately, students receive counseling and grief recovery. This is standard operating procedures anymore, tho I do not recall that occuring during Kent State shootings in the Vietnam era.

   We have been at war for 5 years and many of these young folks have had multiple duty and come home anywhere to no counseling. Here is a situation where they did not witness shootings, they were in the thick of it and the counseling is all the more needed.

   That said, Erie has had an economic war that has lasted decades. There is a shock among the populace that has had no counseling, or anyplace to deal with the consequences of decline. It is not so much that Erie folks are negative and self-loathing as it is a feeling of helplessness in dealing with the myriad problems the community faces.

   A surprising number of folks live paycheck to paycheck and watch nervously (and often in denial) that they are next to go. Depending on your age, health, and lifeskills, you can bounce back easily, with difficulty, or not at all.

   No media forum is addressing this invisible death in our community (and many towns in the nation). We read of Steris moving away and the bile forms to rip stomachs apart.
   What we need to read is a bit more counseling mode of reports (print and tv) on dealing with our collective problems.

   As a personal beginning, you may want to invite someone in need over for an Easter dinner this weekend. Generally, what goes around, comes around. One day, when you are in need, someone may invite you over for an Easter dinner because amazingly…..you were the type of person to do the same.

   We can lift our community together by helping one another.
   If the school district sidewalk did not get shoveled of snow, lift up a shovel and do some of it instead of lifting a pen and complaining.

   Your neighborhood a mess? Get together and help each other one at a time to fix up everyone’s spot as best you can. Good feelings are as catchy as bad. Create em.

4. Jim
   March 20th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

   An example of why some of us find it hard to support additional “quality of life” spending projects. These things may be nice to have, but they DO NOT draw outsiders to your city. It’s a real question whether they even have an actual, rather than perceived, impact on retention.

5. Kim
   March 20th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

   Maybe we should look at the bright side - there are a lot more than 200 cities in the U.S. and we should be glad to have made the list at all!

6. rich
   March 20th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

   “181 in culture and leisure (which seems really low to me)”

   So doesn’t this add credence to the infamous author that called Erie “unfashionable”? I wonder how many people are going to attack Forbes now for saying essentially the same thing. Sooner or later Erieites will need to come to terms with their community–not only how it is perceived by others but that there might be some truth to these statements.

   As to Mike’s comment above, I absolutely agree with him. How sad is it that I found a job in Detroit (Michigan’s economy is one of the worst among U.S. states) and couldn’t find a job in Erie? I sent out more resumes to Erie law firms than I did to Metro Detroit firms. I would move back to Erie if the opportunity was made available but I’m not holding my breath.

7. Joe Erie
   March 20th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

   ^Really not sure that coming in at #184 out of 200 spots is something to be glad about… being on the bottom tier of this type of listing is by no means something to be proud of. It puts Erie right in the company of Flint, Detroit, and Utica… three cities that in many ways are worse off than Erie, especially in terms of job losses.

8. john morris
   March 20th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

   Hello folks, I am from NYC and now live in Pittsburgh and to tell you the truth- I have never been to Erie so I am kind of loitering on this blog.

   Lets be honest– Erie is a small, small, small town and it really can’t expect to rank high on a list like this which is pretty obviously going to tilt towards regions of high business and population density.

   The first rule of success is understanding who you are and how you might fit in. A lot of people like myself are self employed and don’t have incomes totally tied to a particular place. As an artist, reped by a major NY dealer- what I have is a rather meager and irregular income from art sales which I can suppliment by doing a little design work. This small, income can’t buy bare survival in NY, without a change in careers but it might provide a life in a place like Erie.

   The world is full of beautiful tall Sweedish women as well as insanely cute petite Asian girls but if you saw a tall black women who wanted to become a little white girl you might recomend a therapist.

9. Danny Lucas
   March 20th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

   Uh, John…..
   the name of the town is Erie, not Theory.

   The community pretty much knows who they are.
   If we were ranked by Forbes in the top ten instead of the bottom 20, the feeling of those who reside here would remain the same.

   We are not stranded in the depths of depression, nor do we have angst that the fat lady sang…..it ain’t over.

   We do not float in a dreamworld where a magazine rating can make or break us.

   But if St. Peter were to do his greetings at the Pearly Gates of Heaven, a smile would light up his face at the entrance of anyone from Erie.

   He would declare to each and every one of us:
   “Welcome Home! You will find your new residence very similar to your old”.

   And we will smile back.

   If you own a halo, drive up and look around the town.
   Our women folk are world class too, but I would refrain from talking to them like in that last paragraph of yours.
   Many own Griswold frying pans and know how to use em.

10. john morris
    March 20th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Erie interests me because is seems to share a many of the same depressing traits I see
    in Pittsburgh. Here you see tons of people with a deep, obssesive awareness and interest in their own region’s (or tiny part of the region’s)culture and history, while having almost no knowledge or interest in anyplace else.

    This cultural trait is charming but has totally toxic effects on business in the global marketplace. I’m sure for example that it’s the reason ALCOA decided it it was not the place for it’s world headquarters.

    The world does not revolve around Erie and the sooner it wakes up to this fact and learns this, the better. Indian IT companies in Bangalore faced the reality that India was not th current center of the business world and built their businesses around that fact, while playing towards their strengths.

11. George Vietze
    March 20th, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    According to the Forbes report Erie is in the bottom 10% of the top 200 cities in the US. Every survey is
    weighted according to the questions being surveyed. I just left San Diego after moving there from Newport Beach, Ca. I’ll bet they rank pretty high on that survey.
    Erie may not be for everyone, certainly if you cannot find employment or have lost your job and other places will employ you and you have a family to raise, survey or no survey survival take priority.

    I put a value on living in the country not having to fight or deal with major traffic and long commuting and driving times, yet the conveniences of the city is just a few minutes of easy driving. Shopping, theatre, art, culture, attraction, restaurants, race/track/casino, concerts, beaches, snowmobiling, snow-boarding, skiing,
    hunting,golf,are all within a short driving distance. The people here are mostly like Danny Lucus, they would invite you over for dinner just to be neighborly and would help their neighbors in a heartbeat. We all have to find our niche, and people are different, and Erie is not for everyone, and I believe Erie does not want everyone here. If high rises and fancy night clubs and ultra fancy restaurants and private clubs that cost so much it excludes real people you might chose to live in another place. Some of us like the country living and the small town feel of a very nice city like Erie works for a lot of us. That does not mean we can not improve our area and make it more suitable because we need the young educated people to find jobs here and keep this community vibrant. Things are getting better and a lot of people are working hard to improve this area. In the meantime I guess I will just have to wake up and look out at my country setting, drive to town along a beautiful country road, do my food shopping at Wegaman’s, enjoy the beach in the summer, play golf, enjoy my family, eat at Matthews when I want to enjoy restaurant food, comedy club at Jr’s, plays at Warner and Erie Playhouse, baseball at the Stadium, concerts at Bemus Point, enjoy the casino/track, music by Bobby Remus, exercise at Family Sports Park, take my grandaughter to Splash Lagoon, and the list goes on, and wait for Erie to climb the ladder of the top 200 cities.

    I happen to think, although everyone’s list is different, that many people who live here feel like I do, but are too busy raising their family and living there life here.

    I remember when I was 19 years of age and in the military and was sent to Japan. I was sent to a very cold place in northern Japan to a city called Misawa. At that time it was a small country town adjacent to a huge Air Force Base. The chatter was that the food was bad, the place was run down, dirt roads, people were not friendly towards servicemen etc., etc., I learned to eat the food and to this day love Japanese food, visited the rural locations and the hot springs, met some very special people and now consider that time of my life a wonderful experience that I will never forget. I chose to look for the best in Erie that I can find, as Danny Lucas said, what goes around comes around. It is all good and getting better (I never said-perfect because I don’t know how to define perfect)……….

12. James
    March 21st, 2008 at 8:12 am

    My daughter and son-in-law, both raised and educated in Erie, left Erie 10 years ago because they couldn’t find suitable and sustainable employment. Both are college educated and wanted nothing more than to put those degrees to work for them and succeed. They’ve lived in West Palm Beach, FL, Tampa, FL and now live in Raleigh, NC. achieving their dreams.

    I found it not surprising the City rated number one on the Forbes’s list was Raleigh, NC. My wife and I (both born and raised in Erie and no longer living there) visit the kids on occasion and find Raleigh to be one of the most friendly and upbeat cites we’ve ever visited. The kids of course love living there and never fail to mention that fact whenever we speak with them.

    On the flip side of that coin. Whenever we visit family and friends in Erie, we can’t help but notice the constant gloom and doom and negativity of those who live there. The negative Erie attitude is very contagious and it apparently infects us each time we visit. Unfortunately, after a day or two of visiting, we can’t wait to leave.

    Statistics don’t lie and neither do I. Erie needs to rid itself of it’s entitlement, negativity, and “the poor me” attitude or it will continue to be exactly what it is. A backward little town that just can’t figure it out. Sadly, this very same argument has been playing out for all of my 60 plus years.

13. anonymous
    March 21st, 2008 at 8:17 am

    Is there any doubt why Erie was so low on the Forbes list. We need to thank our illustrious Regional Chamber, the four Economic Development groups and our Mayor for all their good work. This forum needs to stop complaning get together with what’s left of the business community and start auditing the usefulness of these economic entities. They have majorly failed the business community. We need to form a non-political group of business people willing to roll up their sleeves and fix things that our politicians are incapable of fixing. We don’t need anymore talkers, we need action!

14. Danny Lucas
    March 21st, 2008 at 9:26 am

    For Anonymous:
    Blame is the most useless of emotions. It resolves nothing, creates disenchantment and falsehood, maligns, exasperates, and moves the discourse not a single iota.
    But it is fun.

    For James,
    You say: “My daughter and son-in-law, both raised and educated in Erie, left Erie 10 years ago because they couldn’t find suitable and sustainable employment. Both are college educated and wanted nothing more than to put those degrees to work for them and succeed. They’ve lived in West Palm Beach, FL, Tampa, FL and now live in Raleigh, NC. achieving their dreams.”

    Note that Erie did NOT have suitable and SUSTAINABLE employment.
    Off we go to West Palm Beach (great for drugs and top of the line money expenses; great for Kennedy or Trump, but not lovers of the Smith Hot Dog). The city failed to SUSTAIN.

    Off we go to Tampa. (Want drugs? Illegal immigrants? Speak a new language at your bank and grocer to conduct business? Air conditioning costs that will pale your face and wallet? Hello Tampa. But, Tampa could not SUSTAIN.

    Off we go to Raleigh. Like gnats in your teeth? How’s the price of water? Too hot and humid? And, with everybody locating in one spot, crowded, and market forces driving wages even lower….. will it sustain this time?

    When the epitaph is written on the tombstone for the parents and the children, moving without sustaining, you will likely find that stone on a plot of land called home…..in Erie, PA.
    We still stop cars out of respect for the departed here; they just have to be the finally departed.

    People find what they are looking for. I have found the negatives you site; I have found the warmest hearts in the coldest of climate here too.

    I savor them all the more for their spirit, since they are like a flower in a cement sidewalk. The same serendipity can be yours on your next visit. Use the eyes you have that seek them, not the eyes that view….say, our drivers not stopped at a funeral procession.

15. Chuck
    March 21st, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Like someone else said already, at least we made the list of the top 200 and “HEY” we were not last!!
    If you look for Erie, PA to ever moving up on the list we need to have a group to attract Businesses and Manufacturing to Erie, PA .
    We have a group called KEEP which actually stands for keep jobs and future growth out of Erie, PA.
    We have The Erie Municipal Airport Authority and Erie County Executive Mark DiVecchio & County Council who act like a bunch of children. They are fighting and saying if I cannot have it my way I am taking my toys and going home!! My opinion is they need to grow up!!
    My point is; with all the crap going on about KEEP group trying to stop ERE from building a tires to energy plant. We have the airport authority and county executive and council fighting over who has what and who needs what. We have City Council also working to raise air quality standards above state levels and one City Council member saying; if we want a tourist’s town we don’t want a company like ERE building a tire burning plant here.
    My question is; if you were a Manufacturing Company or Business would you consider Erie, PA as a place to try and locate a new or expanding Business or MFG?
    No you would not because you are looking at what is going on and what has happened in the past and will just figure it is not worth it. There are so many cities & states trying to attract new Businesses and MFG companies it would be a waste to consider Erie, PA!
    Our leaders have only looked and focused on tourism and its expansion as Manufacturing has continually left Erie in the dust.
    I am not saying tourism is not needed, but the only thing it supports is poverty unless you own the business and I am sure the Scott family can back this fact up!!
    If they can stop the childish fighting between councils, get KEEP to research before talking and preaching we may be able to get some viable companies where people can make a decent wage!!
    Oh, and Curtze Co, if you want to move Bye, Bye.. You should be ashamed of yourself!! If the tire plant is built we are taking our toys and moving!! BULLCRAP, you are also another company that are single minded and are focusing only on your own needs!! A tire to energy plant does not help your business because they do not buy food from you as a supplier!!

16. James A
    March 21st, 2008 at 11:33 am

    One big contrast jumped out at me from that Forbes listing.

    Cost of Living: 5.
    Cost of Doing Business: 141.

    If the cost of living is so low, why such a bad rank in cost of doing business? The footnote says the index is based on cost of labor, energy, taxes, and office space. Cost of Labor can’t really be what’s driving it, since Income Growth is also in the cellar. Energy’s probably a bit higher than the standard because of the cold winters, but it can’t be that bad compared to companies that need to air-condition 9 months a year. And is office space in Erie really that expensive? Looks to me like taxes are the culprit, but is that really all there is to it? I’d love to see the dataset for this.

17. James
    March 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Danny,
    Your description of West Palm Beach, Tampa, and Raleigh are somewhat inaccurate and a bit biased. Yes,the drug problem does exist in those cities, as it does in Erie. Yes there are expensive neighborhoods where the wealthy live, as there are in Erie. Yes the Air Conditioning is costly, however there are no heating costs and I know first hand it actually costs less money per month for utilities in Florida (I can’t speak for Raleigh)than in Erie. Yes, all three cities have large populations of non-English speaking inhabitants which I find to be a positive learning experience. My wife and I have been guests in the homes of Palestinians, Families from Trinidad, India, Blacks, Cubans, Hispanics, and Jews and I will say this. We were treated wonderfully and with more hospitality and genuineness than we ever received in Erie. Water is very very expensive in Tampa, I can’t speak for Raleigh, but water in Orlando was cheaper than in Erie. Yes, it is crowded and traffic is horrible in all of these cities but that’s because they’re booming cities and not wondering why they have no economy to speak of. Regarding the dollars left in the wallet. You don’t know what you’re talking about Danny Lucas because your totally wrong. I won’t share with you any numbers but I can assure you we’ve all financially benefited more than any of us could have imagined compared to how we would have had we chosen to stay in Erie. Finally, I love Smith Hot Dogs and missed them. However…John and Mike Weber’s hot dogs wouldn’t keep me or the kids from wanting to better ourselves. Have you ever had a Boars Head or Allen Bros. Hot Dog? Pretty darn good. Take care and thank you for your comments.

18. Jaime
    March 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Erie has a lot of challenges, no doubt (who doesn’t) but let’s put this in perspective. There are 567 metropolitian areas in the United States and Forbes ranked 200 of the “Best Places” - Erie metro ranked 169. We can do much better and we have groups that are working on that, but we could also have done much worse.

19. john morris
    March 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Mmm, Boars Head.

20. Mike
    March 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    I understand Jaime wants to put a positive spin on this, but from reading the article it includes only the top 200 metro areas in population, which is why the smaller ones aren’t mentioned. 186 out of 200 is not good, no matter how you look at it.

21. Danny Lucas
    March 21st, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    “You don’t know what you’re talking about Danny Lucas because your totally wrong.”
    —-James

    I guess that Florida Driver’s License in my wallet makes me the wrong source to comment on West Palm Beach and Tampa.
    I guess my 3 years of living in Allentown/Bethlehem (city number 30?) would preclude thoughts on Pennsylvania.

    And, my year in Phoenix and year in Portland, Oregon were clearly a waste of information gathering. Uh, I graduated high school in Chicago so I best be silent on the midwest too.

    Traveling 48 of the 50 states in my life certainly gives me no personal insight into the people, territory, or pluses and minuses of these myriad spots.

    And, my first hand experiences in all these places coupled with a lifetime of returns to Erie,Pa would put me smack in the middle of James’ statement.

    As James would say, “your wrong Danny”
    As Danny would say, “you’re wrong Danny”

    I will let the readers decide right or wrong James.
    I impose my opinion on no one.

    I will add this,… after life in all the towns you site.
    In the event of a major depression like 1929 til
    World War II, there are many areas of the country where people are going to turn on one another big time.
    There is no cohesive connection. Of all the areas I have travelled on the Globe, I would prefer most distinctly to reside in Erie, Pa in the event our country went south economically into a Depression. The quality of the people make the difference in ALL of those locales I site. I know I can depend on friends and neighbors here.
    You know it too.

    I barely touched on the disaster that is growing in Florida, nor life with a transient population base, the effect that has on taxes for the locals, gang warfare, why the 2000 election occurred the way it did in Florida, and the lonliness of the retired spouse left behind after death of their partner. They always leave Florida and go back from whence they came. Some wise up sooner.

    “I won’t share with you any numbers but I can assure you we’ve all financially benefited more than any of us could have imagined compared to how we would have had we chosen to stay in Erie.”
    —–more James

    If someone want to live a life of accumulating and benefitting financially, Erie may or may not be their best choice (Florida proved better for my brother, but he killed bugs for a living and bugs hold worldwide reunions daily in the Sunshine State).

    But my daughter met a young man and we sat down to discuss his future. I asked him what he wanted to do with his life. He told me that he wanted to stay in Pennsylvania, but he wanted to go to Philadelphia and teach inner city children phys ed.

    I replied that he would never become wealthy that way as the pay is low and the work demands are enormous (and growing worse). I added: “You won’t grow rich, Jon,…..
    but you will lead one of the most rewarding lives a person could live. You will improve the life of those less fortunate than you. I am proud of your choice”.

    So far, Jon has yet to tell me “your wrong Danny Lucas”.

22. Danny Lucas
    March 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I forgot the wonderful subprime game in Florida and the flea market mentality of sales of anything to avoid taxes too James, but that was not worth the typing.
    My week in Erie this week is.

    I shopped at Giant Eagle on 26th and Peninsula. When I got to the cashier, she yelled out loud to me:
    “WHERE have YOU been?”. We smiled grandly at one another.

    I explained my travels and returns and we caught up on the children; hers and mine. I have never been to her home. I do not know her family or where she lives. We just always talked in the shopping lane. Her pregnancy years ago was obvious and she was gone away (her turn). Upon her return to Giant Eagle, I asked for pictures of the new child. She showed me and gave me the name too. I slipped that note into my Bible as I have a habit of praying for our youth.

    Years went by.

    This week, I ran into Tammy for the first time in a long time, and she blurted out the above declaration. I asked again about the child and she said she has added two more. I asked for pics anew. She wrote down the names of the new two additions to Erie citizens, knowing full well the slip of paper ends up in my Bible and whoever is on the page I open, becomes the apparent one selected by God for prayer.

    The irony? This conversation is repeated at all shopping places I visit in Erie. I have had the same experience precisely once elsewhere (New Holland, PA, an Amish woman - she remembered my name after a single visit and it was a month before my return) in all the places I have lived.
    It is a way of life in Erie and a duty everywhere else.

    My wallet is empty compared to yours James, yet, I am the wealthiest guy I know.

23. anonymous
    March 21st, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    Danny: Since you seem to have an answer for everything on this board, please tell us what you propose to do about fixing things in Erie. We are not interested in your ramblings, we are interested in what you have done. Tell us all what accomplishments you have made to date to fix the major financial problems of this city. Tell us also what you have done to attract business to Erie. We really are not interested in your fantasies or who you met at the Giant Eagle when the city is on the verge of bankruptcy.

24. Danny Lucas
    March 21st, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    please tell us what you propose to do about fixing things in Erie
    —Anonymous (as usual, and again)

    I will comment where I choose.
    I will comment on what I choose.
    I post my name for your convenience to avoid the pain of reading my penmanship.

    You have the floor.
    Be my guest.
    Go first.
    And, in the future, feel free to write on what concerns you.

    I already do just THAT in my comments.

    Do not feel free to determine what others are interested in or even NOT interested in. Big people can determine that for themselves.

    The parameters of this forum are determined by a real person; not an Anonymous. If you wish to dispute that, take it up with the blog owner, not me.

25. James
    March 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 am

    Sorry folks…I didn’t mean for my original and heartfelt comment to send anyone over the edge. It appears a certain individual is wanting to take it outside and I haven’t quite figured out why. Peter’s blog really isn’t the venue for this type of behavior so let’s shake hands, play nicely and share some constructive thoughts.

26. anonymous
    March 22nd, 2008 at 8:27 am

    Danny: We have been reading your comments for a while now and find that your positive spin on Erie and your critical comments of others who don’t see things YOUR way seem not to be working. Again, please tell us all what you have done to help fix this city’s problems. What do you propose needs to be done to keep Erie from going into an ACT 47? You can continue to bull___t us with the line about meeting old friends in the Giant Eagle or you can get real and come up with concrete plans to fix a city that is virtually bankrupt. The question then is are you really interested in saving this city or are you going to continue with your positive thought of the past. Maybe you can look at it this way…Think of Erie as a patient in the emergency room of a hospital…the house is a blaze and the fire engines are outside. What are YOU going to do to revive the patient?

27. Peter Panepento
    March 22nd, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Guys, let’s stick to the topic and not take shots at each other.

    I’d rather debate and discuss ideas rather than get distracted by trying to outdo each other.

    Thanks.

28. George Vietze
    March 22nd, 2008 at 11:44 am

    We alll have our reasons and perspectives for using this forum. For me, these discussions give me a feel for the attitudes and perspective of the community which I choose to live. I have chosen to invest in land in this area because believe, after many years or experience, that ownership of land 15-30 minutes from a community that has the attractions that Erie has and yet allows country living with open space, fields, woods, creek and a reasonable cost of living would be a great to live and retire. My interest is to help communicate the current status of Erie because in the last few years, in my opinion, Erie is turning the corner. The politics have improved, it seems, from the past and a more open-minded approach that involves local resident groups over-seeing and recommending changes. The Chamber of Commerce, despite comments on this site, is working toward a more visible marketing program as are other local groups representing different interests. For me, and I realize that others on this site differ in their view, the casino-racetracks investment in this area was a water-shed event.
    It has and will continue to add revenue to an area that has a great need for that cash flow. The casino/race track chose this area, in my opinion, beacause of its demographics of access to being within 500 miles of 50% of the population of the United States, according to a web page of one of our local groups. The many attractions such as Presque Isle Beaches, Family Sports Park, Waldemer Park, Splash Lagoon and many other attractions plus nearly 5,000 hotel rooms, a convention center give the patrons a reason to stay in Erie longer which not only benefits the community business but adds to the revenue of all parties. Our location, provided the Airport situation is resolved, makes Erie ideal for full gaming, which in my opinion, is in the cards (no pun intended). This will also increase the horse industry because the State of PA. mandated by law that 12% of gaming revenue be set aside for racing purses thereby attracting top trainers and jockeys to Presque Isle Downs.
    Breeding farms will migrate to Erie because the Pennsylvania Breeders Association have changed the rules to require PA bred horses to live in PA longer. Race tracks in Ohio that do not have large purses and cannot effectively compete are now up for sale and soon breeding farms will slowly move to this area.

    Based upon discussions on this site, if those opinions are to be believed, it is difficult to overcome the hurdles of a community and state that has been characterized as extemely unfriendly and costly to do business. My hope is that this can be overcome, because a community to be balanced and vibrant needs jobs that can keep our young talent employed at competitive wages.

    I never met Danny Lucus, except by written communication,
    the reason I speak of Danny, is that I witnessed, first hand, his emails to Peter Marsh of the Financial Times who wrote the now “infamous” “unfashionable” article about Erie, and Danny, with FACTS, eloquently changed that reporters perception of Erie. That was a HUGE demonstration of what one person could do. Much more than “e-no-mas” has contributed to this dialog. This gave me an example of a long time Erie area resident who has defended his community and I exposed that story to out of state media, international media, political media,
    CNBC, General Electric, research analysts who cover GE, and anyone else who would listen in an effort to attract media attention to Erie during the election, which as predicted, is going to be very instrumental in attracting even more media to Erie. All because of Danny Lucus…because without that ONE RESIDENT, USING FACTS, this story had no legs. Erie’s favorite WINE is “Poor Me”. That wine is now outdated and I now suggest “NEW ATTITUDE”. I believe we will attract more media and investors in April, it is now up to local media, the Chamber of Commerce, the NW Mfg. Assoc., and other groups to do their jobs and present written report and up-to-date facts to the media and investors. I believe that will happen, we need to give them a chance to do their jobs. I hope that local business and restaurants and the residents of Erie join in and be a positive and real as they are able to be. Nothing is going to happen over-night, and to answer the question of some commenters of how I can be so positive, because like Danny Lucas, it works better for ME, try it and let me know how it works for you.

29. Tom
    March 24th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    I noticed we rank relatively well in “colleges” and yet at the bottom for “income growth” and “job growth”.
    Do I need to explain what this means concerning the arguments for a new community college?
    O.K., I will. There is obviously no relationship in the local economy between availability of higher education and wages or job growth. When our citizens finish their education, they find jobs and leave.
    Politicians who promote the community college do so to advance their own political power and in place of an economic growth agenda.
    After careful consideration of all of the arguments for and against the expensive community college, I must conclude that there is not one legitimate argument in support of the plan.

30. George Vietze
    March 25th, 2008 at 7:23 am

    Broadening our educational opportunities to the residents of this area who are economicaly disadvantaged and have been educationally deprived because of socialeconomical conditions seems like a good way to spend money. Not everyone has the backround or money to attend other higher educational opportunities and this area may have a disproportianate number of people who would afford themselves to this opportunity. This would also broaden the attraction to this area for the people or companies who would consider investing and moving here.

    Educating our city and state government about the reasons that this area needs to become more business friendly also needs to be built.

    Commentors like Jim have been trying to “educate” them and us about efficient productivity and ways we can improve our return on dollars invested. I don’t completely understand why the “politics” would won’t to be unfriendly to business investment and can only conclude that they themselves need more “education” on ways to improve. It also seems to me that some residents also require some “education”. My sense is that some people feel that if it cost money to build a school or whatever the “project” is and it doesn’t benefit “them” directly, the money should not be spent. Senior citizens and older people don’t sometimes feel that a community college is going to directly effect them and is going to raise taxes and therefore do not build one. An education on the importance of a broader view and perspective that the more vibrant a balanced economy is for the entire area the better all of us will be in the long run. This site has been helpful in educating me on what makes this area what it has become. The politics, the history, the attitude of the residents, the culture of the area has been enlightening to someone that has recently moved here.
    My sense is that Erie has turned the corner, albeit, slowly and is on the move! A lot of people are working very hard to move this area forward. I even noticed that attitudes on this forum have become more positive and supportive. It is not important that we all agree on every point of every subject but it is important that we keep an open mind and that we “educate” ourselves in the areas that others have more incite and experience. This forum could be more effective in changing attitudes and contributing to our growth than we realize. I thank all of you for the “education” that I, as a new arrival, have been exposed to. It would have taken me years to accumulate the background and sense of the area that I have received reading your comments. Jim and others have shared some very constructive views on economics and I can feel his frustration, Jim, don’t give up, you are makeing a difference. Danny Lucas, a wonderful spirit, whose sense of community comes through loud and clear, Danny, I know you don’t agree with some of my views, especially my support of gambling in Pa., frankly I know gambling is a tax on the gamblers who fight the percentage but it is a “choice” that we can elect to do or not and people come from all over keep this area “GREEN” and Erie needs the money. It is not about our different views but it is about contributing to the “spirit” of our community, that is what makes this area different from other communities, we have a community “spirit” that is unlike any other place I have been. This has become a home not just a place to live.